Unai Emery


#1468

Emery should resign with fans like you.


#1469

That would be a positive step forward, yes, though with Fraudlein MISSintat, ThreeFidsADay, and The Bald Cunt in charge who knows if the replacement would be any better.


#1470

Pathetic HOW YOU ARE NOT EVEN GIVING HIM A CHANCE. We absolutely deserve to go down this season so we can finally get rid of some shit fans.


#1471

I’m a colchonero through and through mate; if you prick my arm you’ll see striped red and white blood come out. Dunno what Arsenal going down has to do with getting rid of fans like me.

Re: giving him a chance, like I said in my post earlier, what is that bullshit? Doesn’t actually make any sense.


#1472

When you hire someone you give some months of trial before getting rid of him.


#1473

To be fair, we don’t know about Emery conclusively, at least not purely negatively - the data doesn’t support the certainty - if you want to make the argument on style or other factors, fine.

Also, the idea that someone is “unknown” so we don’t know what they would do is not the right way to look at it either (frankly, in any other industry or walk of life, it is kind of laughable - certain high ranking jobs are not given to people without sufficient relevant experience, period).

Its like saying “I could hire this guy with no experience at all” and somehow coming up with the idea that the no experience simply means “he might be great, he might not” - while that is logically true, it isn’t binary, they aren’t equal in probability, and it is not reasonable to hire someone without experience for a job that generally requires it.

Having said that, Arteta at least had a year (or two?) under Pep and some of the qualities that are interesting in a managerial prospect, but that’s about it.

Also, there are plenty of shades of grey here and none of us are football people for a living, so I think some of the black and white thinkers need to back up just a tad.


#1474

This point is irrelevant, given that there is precedent for people with Arteta’s level of experience or similar getting big jobs and thriving in them in football, which is of course the relevant industry.

How do we not? We have 8 years (9?) of managerial experience at the top level, at three different clubs. If we can’t form a pretty conclusive opinion on Emery it’s hard to imagine who we can form an opinion on. We can certainly, at the very least, make some definitive statements, like: 1) he is not a manager the level of a Pep, Klopp, or Poch, nor does he have the potential to be 2) He doesn’t have a strong style or philosophical take/ideas on football 3) He isn’t a strong developer of assets/young players, etc. etc.

All she was saying is the obvious-- there is reason to prefer a high risk/high reward uncertainty to a mediocre certainty. Hence this paragraph, following, is mostly arguing against a strawman…

Indeed, though if you shouldn’t’ve hired him at all in the first place…


#1475

The first point ignores the fact that there is also precedent for them not succeeding…


#1476

Also, Emery’s results at his clubs over that period are not bad at all, at least in terms of league place and trophies… in fact in some ways there are some damn impressive results in there.

And your definitive statements are not definitive at all - they are your opinions, some of which I might agree with.

It isn’t a straw man at all - in almost any industry it is irrefutable - and there is certainly reason to at least heed the issue in football top management.


#1477

This has to be the worst banter/insult/whatever it’s supposed to be on the site right now.


#1478

No, I didn’t need to point that out to respond to your point, which was basically saying that there wasn’t any kind of precedent for that type of hire, which there is.

Ehh, he’s basically never out-performed expectations, something he needs to do to succeed here. His CV rests basically entirely on 3 EL cup wins.

If those statements are not definitive we might as well limit our discussion to statements like “Messi is good at football”, “Pep is good at coaching”, “Real Madrid is a big club”.

You’ve missed my point, the strawman part is saying she’s making it out to be a binary, or that they are equal in probability–that is all stuff you’ve added yourself; she hasn’t even argued against the last part which you also added “it is not reasonable to hire someone without experience for a job that generally requires it.” All she said was a simple fact: “there is reason to prefer a high risk/high reward uncertainty to a mediocre certainty.” Your arguments don’t do anything to dispute that.

I guess you’re more of a Fraudlein MISSintat guy, aren’t you, blue eyes? :kissing_heart:


#1479

@AbouCuellar, would you the first to admit you were wrong if Emery did well?


#1480

But I DIDN’T say there wasn’t precedent…

And I was referring to her direct statement: “we don’t know what Arteta can do – he could be a football manager genius for all we know” - that is not a reasonable way to talk about someone inexperienced in any senior management role in business… it isn’t as directly applicable to football management, but it is certainly at least a factor to consider…

It isn’t productive to have these sorts of conversations with you though. I know you don’t intend it, but I sincerely get the impression that you aren’t trying in the least for reading to comprehend intent and meaning.


#1481

This was her post:

She’s making an extremely basic point, and you’ve frankly gone off on a tangent. Reading for tone, the “football manager genius” comment is certainly not made with a dead-serious tone, and yet you’ve taken it that way, cherry picked it, and gone on a not really applicable tangent.

With the evidence above, you might want to consider that the bold actually applies to you.

Absolutely. I’m the same guy who spent years arguing for Wenger only to realise I was totally wrong during the 14-16 period and criticise him as heavily as anyone. I’m the same guy defending Ramsey here against people who still don’t have an open mind toward him who thought we were wasting our time with him in 2012, and who was outspoken about such. I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong. Problem is the more I learn about football, the older I get, the more and more I’ve got away from the limited player’s mindset I had when I first got on the forum, the less and less I’m wrong about it :grimacing: Which is worrying for you fish and chips Arsenal boys.


#1482

What the hell are Fish and Chips Arsenal Boys?


#1483

With a manager who has somewhat of an extended resumé like Emery has you can have a certain level of expectation. He has been managing for almost 15 years. Arteta would be the appointment of really not knowing what might happen. In my opinion it’s easier to get behind the latter than the former.


#1484

@AbouCuellar, glad you said it. Let’s just see what Emery can do, then.


#1485

A lot of pointless conjecture in here at the moment. He’s a good manager, perhaps not a brilliant one but good enough for a top 4 team. Wenger’s teams were frequently beaten by worse managers than Emery.

No-one knows what the season will bring, but we should be happy that is the case after 15 years of mind-numbingly slow decline. On paper we have a far better squad than we’ve ever started a season with at the Emirates.


#1486

I’m not so sure the squad is better than the 07-08 squad other than our current striker…


#1487

Exactly. I expect us to improve tactically under Emery.