Theo Walcott


#1027

I genuinely wonder if some fans truly appreciate the baffling spectacle that Arsenal provides the BPL through perpetual mediocrity when I hear responses like this.

In what (other) elite team’s starting XI can Theo Walcott enter?
What other “captain” of comparison willingly asserts that the opponents “wanted it more”?
Do you also think that Troy Deeney would be a suitable player for the lineup, considering statistics prove he was instrumental to goal-scoring efforts at Watford, much like Walcott is apparently at Arsenal?

I highly doubt you genuinely believe his goal-scoring record from last season is enough to warrant his place in the team after what has been persistent mediocrity and inconsistency the last 5+ years besides the 12-13 season. It feels futile to even explain this. The lack of creativity and flair we have from Theo Walcott on the wing is extremely blatant and notable in games and has been detrimental to Arsenal’s offensive flow the last few seasons. And no, Walcott’s speed is not enough to make up for this deficiency.

Contrasting this flaw of Walcott’s game with KDB’s talents highlights our loss when we fail to fill our right wing with a player of a versatile attacking skillet. KDB’s ability to penetrate space with his “flashy” or “skillful” dribbling attributes forces defenders to collapse onto him and creates opportunities for open channels to find other players. Combined with KDB’s substantially more technical passing ability and vision, this provides a devastating player the other team must contain.

The difference here is obvious - KDB’s strengths (vision, passing, dribbling, flair, technique) allow his teammates to ultimately flourish when he has the ball. Walcott’s, meanwhile, require our tactics to complement his one-dimensional skillset and style in order to receive an “end-product” or production (i.e. some goals). Sure, complementing Walcott may allow him to get a decent goal scoring season total, however, it’s ultimately fruitless to create specific offensive strategies (which are dull) to complement an attacker who isn’t of absolute world class talent (the Messi’s, Ronaldo’s, etc) And this limitation routinely gets exposed whenever Walcott and the team plays against a top defensive team in the league.

At the end of the day, I’m tired. I’m tired of settling for mediocrity. I don’t post here often, but I frequently read through the threads, but I must remind you all that as Arsenal fans, we deserve the absolute best - the best management, the best coach, the best *players, the best period. We are a team with a history of greats, success, and a winning culture. I refuse to normalize the uninspiring and second-rate football we’ve produced the last decade. It’s time for change. Players like Theo Walcott must go.


#1028

A goal or an assist every to 120 minutes of football spanning over a 10 year period :+1:


#1029

You may rarely post but when you did at least you made it worthwhile, that post was right on point bravo.


#1030

That is a top post.


#1031

Wrong.


#1032

Yeah, I have some problems with this post.

A) There’s no significant tactical switch to fit Walcott in…not much more than there is really with any other offensive player really, certainly with Giroud, for instance, the a priori tactical alteration is more, because his presence on the pitch effects lots of players in that they are more encouraged to cross or play the ball off the ground from the back, or play into a stationary box/pivot striker when elaborating the build up. With Walcott the change really is that you have a runner off the ball, and the RB on the right/midfielders have a less satisfying outlet on the right in building up, and our creativity on that side is null. To compare it to the effect, or to an a priori switch that other clubs make for certain players, is pretty specious. As good or a better option would be the effect Coquelin has on us tactically, again, just like all of our tactics really, none of it is a priori but rather the quality of the players shaping the resulting tactics, but it’s certainly a bigger change the way our team performs tactically with Coquelin in the line up instead of an an actual footballer, than it is Theo in the line-up instead of Welbeck on the right (when we played 4-3-3) or Iwobi.

B) All the stuff about how we deserve better and need to up the level and can’t settle for mediocrity and how Walcott wouldn’t get into other top teams XIs is all fine and well, and perfectly evident, but the fact is Walcott doesn’t get into our best XI either, despite this low level, and certainly his current role is that of a squad player. Why focus on him as the player “that must go?” I would suggest players like Giroud, and Coquelin, who play more important roles in the squad, are ones that would make more sense for such a focus. And obviously, even the Invincibles, or golden era Pep Barça, had squad players of Theo level, a point that goes without saying and is boring enough for me to not bother mentioning players from such teams. None of this to say that selling Theo, and replacing him with a better player or a more interesting young player, would be a bad move, it’s just to say that there is clearly a good bit of scapegoating and tying up frustrations and dissatisfaction in one player going on here, when, like I say, there are more urgent, and more blatant areas of upgrade and mishandling in the squad, like our crap in central midfield…and this post could’ve easily taken a focus on Welbeck, Giroud, Coquelin, our lack of depth at LB, or even Wilshere and probably been as or more convincing…but it’s clear for whatever reason Arsenal fans tie up a lot of their frustrations in Theo, which is why, I suppose, people like a4tt find themselves so prone to go trolling at this particular well.


#1033

A) An overwhelming majority of Walcott’s production from this previous season came from the result of poacher efforts or one on ones created from through balls to feed Walcott’s pace. This strains other players to makeup for the lacking creativity. This is a large contributor to whenever our attacking game is stuck in the final third with only a pass to the back four (or three) available. Of course, Walcott is not the only contributor to our bland attacking display in recent years, but I believe he’s a substantial contributor whenever he’s on the field as a large part of our offense is constrained to waiting for potential runs from Walcott or hoping another individual shows a glimpse of creativity to find Walcott available for a poaching effort - a double bind which in either way constrains our attacking tactics in an effort to find an end-product.

B) This is silly - none of this is mutually exclusive. I can present my reservations on Theo Walcott needing to leave while also believing that we should sell Welbeck, Wilshere, Debuchy, etc. This is a thread about Theo, hence why I only discussed his prospects at the club.

I do think he can serve as a decent squad player, although I frequently digress from this opinion since one, he signed a substantial contract meant to be for a key player for the team, two, his fragile mental attributes from a long-term player and hence a “role-model” at the club contribute to the poor levels of determination and focus we see from our team, and three, our right wing options are all so undisputedly and equally average that we could very well see Walcott become a routine starter - until we sign a player whose talent is far ahead of all those wing options will this issue be resolved. Besides, at the end of the day, I wouldn’t be surprised if Wenger dabbles with the idea of propagating Walcott’s role once again as a key player due to misleading statistics like TW’s goal total last season.


#1034


#1035

Apt description.

This is Theo:


#1036

that came a bit out of nowhere, what caused that reaction all of a sudden, we all know he has not got a ‘footballing brain’ but what made this response happen.


#1037

So here’s a conundrum. Is Theo really that good or are these radar graphs just stupid? You guys wank all over yourselves when you see a really good one of these for a potential signing…


#1038

Looks like an ass to me.


#1039

I think the post from @SenorArsenal addressed the Theo issue very aptly. Maybe you should have responded to it.


#1040

There’s no reason he can’t post statistics…I responded to SrArsenal’s post which isn’t without its fair share of problematic statements anyways.

Here’s perhaps an even more convincing graphic as to why it’s rather absurd that Theo is by far the most scapegoated/called for his head:

Throw all the rationalisations at it you want, as SrArsenal or others do, but when the player who has the most xG added after Alexis is also the one whose head is called for most, you have an obvious case of fans having a special dislike/having frustrations tied up in a player.

It’s not unlike the case of Diaby, where whatever statistical evidence you give to people to challenge their irrational frustrations/pre-conceptions they will not only not change their opinion but dig in their heels more.


#1041

Posting statistics without contextualization is fruitless and fails to advance dialogue.

Besides, I responded to your post earlier.


#1042

Put Theo’s end product into Danny Welbeck and you have a quality, quality player.


#1043

Those statistics aren’t without contextualization, and even if they were, is this statement really true?

When arguing against an extreme argument, statistics/objective evidence are really one of your best tools. It’s like if someone tells me: Denmark is bad, and I post a statistic showing that Danes on average rate as the third happiest citizens per capita in the world. Then we can start talking about how good these ratings are, what is happiness exactly?, what flaws are there in collecting this kind of information, how much is high happiness ratings incompatible with your statement that Denmark is bad, anyways? etc. But it’s still bringing an important premise and conclusion to the discussion is, that is, Premise: If happiness is good, and Denmark rates third highest in happiness in the world, then Conclusion: Denmark is probably not that bad


#1044

Theo could play for any other big team. He’s not as technically astute as a Willian but his end product is categorically better. Wonder if United could have used someone who could score last season? City had Sterling starting on the wing last year lol, once again he can’t hold a candle to what Theo has accomplished. Let’s see Troy Deeny and his stats compared with other top strikers in the league and if they are comparable, maybe I’d accept that premise. However I really doubt he’s scoring or assisting once every 127 minutes, Deeny doesn’t produce more than KDB, but guess who does?? As far as Theo’s faux pas, he was disciplined and dropped for the last several weeks because of it. [quote=“SenorArsenal, post:1027, topic:89”]
I highly doubt you genuinely believe his goal-scoring record from last season is enough to warrant his place in the team after what has been persistent mediocrity and inconsistency the last 5+ years besides the 12-13 season. It feels futile to even explain this. The lack of creativity and flair we have from Theo Walcott on the wing is extremely blatant and notable in games and has been detrimental to Arsenal’s offensive flow the last few seasons. And no, Walcott’s speed is not enough to make up for this deficiency.
[/quote]

Walcott is not a playmaking Winger. He’s a forward. He doesn’t drop deep and pick up the ball and make passess that cut the defense open. He’s obviously told to create space for our more technical players by pulling defenders out of position, to make runs down the wing and score goals, which he does to unassailable success, it’s not arguable. It’s not a detrement to our offensive flow, however I do agree that this strategy doesn’t work in every match. By the way check his statistics defensively, he’s improved massively and adds that important aspect to our team as well.

Don’t get hung up on the KDB comparison, once again I use him as a standard for output. KDB is one of the most well rounded players in the game (offensively) nobody is saying Theo’s impact is similar or Theo is as good of a player. KDB would go for 100m nowadays to a team like Madrid. Theo is going for 30m to a team like West Ham. However that doesn’t negate the facts, Theo actually provides Arsenal with more assists/goals per minute than KDB does for his team. It’s not debatable. [quote=“SenorArsenal, post:1027, topic:89”]
t the end of the day, I’m tired. I’m tired of settling for mediocrity. I don’t post here often, but I frequently read through the threads, but I must remind you all that as Arsenal fans, we deserve the absolute best - the best management, the best coach, the best *players, the best period. We are a team with a history of greats, success, and a winning culture. I refuse to normalize the uninspiring and second-rate football we’ve produced the last decade. It’s time for change. Players like Theo Walcott must go.
[/quote]

Ok be tired whatever, Theo is a squad player in our team at best and he’s being scapegoated which is bullshit. There are far bigger issues in the team that your oh so valuable time could be spent posting about. Btw no you don’t deserve shit lmao, this is the kind of sad mentality our fanatics have, as if we as fans deserve to lift a trophy year in year out or something. The mentality that poo poo’s the Communty Shield because you have delusions of grandeur like you should be hoisting the CL at the end of the season every year. Wake up Arsenal isn’t as good as you think they are now or historically, you are all sounding a lot like lolpool fanatics, and they are known as the worst in the league for that very reason…Arsenal fanatics are catching up very quickly, already known as the worst most dellusional fans on twitter anyways.


#1045

This isn’t American baseball… statistics are so woefully limited in explaining a sport like football and performance of a player on a pitch with 21 other players… each player is only “actively/obviously” involved in like 3-4% of the game but are impacting the game constantly in other ways.

Theo doesn’t start for our team, even when we are missing shedloads of players (like this past weekend). Iwobi gets into the team above Walcott…

Having said all that, I agree that the Theo hate is over the top, at least on OBJECTIVE terms… however, he isn’t a great player despite what the stats argue. He is a decent enough but very limited squad option that has some useful tools, but overall is just not a great footballer and I would rather a bunch of players over him, including Iwobi.

The reason I want him out at this point has more to do with my belief that his fortitude and mentality are terrible. This may be totally unfair and baseless, but my impression is of one who is not a fighter, is fragile mentally and physically, and lacks the guts, flair, and balls to really live up to his potential.

The comparisons to Pires and Ljungberg, and the rest of the legends is tiresome… I get why people feel compelled, but it doesn’t really contribute to reasonable discourse - no offense.


#1046

Again, this just doesn’t seem very reflective of the actual reality to me. You’re overstating one player’s influence on the team’s play, especially one that isn’t a type of shot/dribble/ball monster like Alexis, Ronaldo, Messi, etc. etc. You could easily turn this around and say: ah, I wish Giroud were a more well-rounded striker, more able to break down defences with dribbling or passing so to make use of Walcott’s off the ball work and wide-poacher characteristics, and turn it into a rant against Giroud. Anyways, this is forcing me to repeat my comments from the first response

[quote=“SenorArsenal, post:1033, topic:89”]
This is silly - none of this is mutually exclusive. I can present my reservations on Theo Walcott needing to leave while also believing that we should sell Welbeck, Wilshere, Debuchy, etc. This is a thread about Theo, hence why I only discussed his prospects at the club.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but the fact that you’ve made this one rant about Theo Walcott is obviously not without meaning. It’s like me getting drunk and deciding to send a text to an ex, if she tells me to move on and get over it am I then going to say: pfft, I’m over it ho, I could’ve sent a text to María, Lucía, Cristina, Noelia, or Ana, it’s just that obviously I was only gon talk about stuff between you and me in our text conversation? No…of course the fact that I chose this particular girl to send my text message rant to instead of María, Lucía, Cristina, etc… has significance…

[QUOTE]I do think he can serve as a decent squad player, although I frequently digress from this opinion since one, he signed a substantial contract meant to be for a key player for the team[/QUOTE]

He signed the best contract he could get, period, and yes, in 12-13 he did certainly look like he could be a key player for the team. Anyways, the contract he is on now is no longer extremely expensive by current standards, so it’s really a moot point to some extent, if what he signed his contract to be wasn’t a moot point anyways, given his acceptance of a squad player role.

That’s a terribly, terrible speculative/tendentious point, and a pretty good example of people tying up general frustrations with Arsenal in one player, tbh.

[QUOTE]and three, our right wing options are all so undisputedly and equally average that we could very well see Walcott become a routine starter - until we sign a player whose talent is far ahead of all those wing options will this issue be resolved. [/QUOTE]

Right, and since Wenger very often has preferred Welbeck to Walcott on the right or in this current formation he is using he seems to be ahead of him, shouldn’t this be a discussion about how we need to replace Welbeck with a better player? Ah no, you’ve been talking about that in the Welbeck thread, no doubt, with even more vehemence…

There you have your response, SrArsenal.