The R.I.P thread


#262

I actually thought that was a little too on the nose. Scorsese apparently wasn’t actually too fond of Soprano’s. Though as a fellow fan of Scorsese and Goodfellas I’m pretty hyped to see De Niro and Pesci reunited in his up and coming film, The Irishman.


#263

Meh. He said he couldn’t connect with it and watched one or two episodes. He then made a series (Boardwalk Empire) with one of the main Sopranos writers which wasn’t as good.


#264

Boardwalk was shit and Soprano’s was overrated tbh.

The Soprano’s had a lot going for it but still felt like it was trying too hard to emulate Scorceses’ work without ever really living up to it. Still miles better than The Wire though.


#265

Don’t think Sopranos tried to emulate Scorcese at all. In fact it’s a totally different genre. Sopranos is a family drama/cultural satire disguised as a gangster series. It’s much closer to Mad Men in its concerns (made by the same showrunner, of course) than Scorcese’s mob flicks. And The Wire was great, c’mon.


#266

The whole series really hinged on the interactions between Dr Melfi and Tony, the show’s interest in psychology and family dynamics elevates it above Scorsese’s work in a respect. If you want straight up mafia/crime shut then Scorsese is peerless, Sopranos isn’t better in that respect, and The Sopranos clearly takes cues from his work. But Sopranos concerns itself with so much more than just that.

Fair play if you found that scene too on the nose though @Castiel, likewise for your overall impression of the show. I really disagree but I’m not rubbishing your opinion


#267

Sounds to me like a lot of Scorcese’s nuance was lost on you guys. There are many parallels between the two styles, some purposeful and obvious, others not so much.

The similarities far transcend that of just the cast, most obvious the family dynamic you speak of is something that is without a doubt present in Goodfellas, the dinner scene at Tommy’s mums house is literally Soprano’s in a nutshell. Of course the interactions between the Dr and Tony add a the modern element of psychology to the equation which in itself is interesting, but more-so than not I found that those scenes fell a little flat.

For me Scorcese is the master, the finest director in cinema and an absolute genius. His work is far deeper than mafia/crime shit and I find that the layers within his work are often overlooked, or ignored by viewers and even fans.

Not only do I believe that The Soprano’s took a great deal of inspiration from Scorcese’s work - hell they even have a lookalike of him in one of the episodes- but I feel the reason the show was so popular was because Scorcese’s modern adaption of the Italian American mob created such a large audience for the genre in the early 90s.


#268

Gonna sacrifice my dignity here and admit I haven’t watched Sopranos.


#269

No, it really isn’t. Tommy and his mum’s relationship shown in that 5 to 10 minute scene bears absolutely no relation to Tony’s relationship with his mother, or Carmela’s with her children. I don’t even know why you’d say that.

Sounds to me from your post like a lot of The Sopranos nuance was lost on you.

Anyway, I love Scorsese’s work so I’m not gonna spend time here with you trying to chip away at any of it or comparing it unfavourably to The Sopranos. I just disagreed with you saying it was trying too hard to emulate Scorsese when I think it is as clear as day that it wasn’t trying to emulate Scorsese at all. The Sopranos tried and succeeded to do something different with the mob genre but it doesn’t look like there’s anything more to be said to convince you.

Plus this probably isn’t the thread for it anyway lol


#270

In a drama, it’s very difficult to illustrate a character’s thoughts and emotions. At first, I thought the Dr Melfi outlet was an easy option for allowing us to see the other side of Tony Soprano. In hindsight, however, it is a brilliant dramatic device and sh*ts on the voiceover narrative.

As my controversial Sunday continues (I’ve just made disparaging remarks about Interstellar in another thread) I’d go so far as to say the Sopranos is light years ahead of Game of thrones as a drama.

Breaking Bad > The Wire > true detective season 1 > sopranos


#271

I obviously would say this given my previous comments in here, but I don’t think that’s controversial in the slightest, and I say that as a big fan of both Game of Thrones the show and A Song of Ice and Fire (the books).

I’d rank those four shows slightly differently though.

The Wire > The Sopranos > Breaking Bad >= True Detective series 1


#272

True detective series 1 > game of thrones > archer > the wire for me

Breaking bad, although I loved it at the time isn’t really up their witht the very best IMO

Only seen the 1st series of the sopranos so can’t really rank that


#273

The Wire :pray:t3:


#274

Same but I intend to watch it all when there’s a lul in TV shows


#275

Is this still the RIP thread or has it been renamed Sopranos discussion thread? :wink:


#276

Sorry there isn’t enough death for you in here.


#277

I could happily start paying tribute to my favourite dead Sopranos characters if you like.

First of all, Ralphie Cifaretto… “she was a whooo-uh!”


#278

Because it’s blatantly obvious that the family dynamic that was shown within Goodfellas was a clear source of inspiration for The Soprano’s. Sop was just able to delve deeper into it as it was a show and not a film on a limited time frame. Goodfellas was actually imo, a better portrayal of what it meant to be part of the “family” and how severely that affected those around the main men within the organizations.

At the end of the day the show has many obvious nods to films that it drew inspiration from, just because you don’t see the parallels doesn’t mean that they aren’t there. To be clear I’m not arguing that it didn’t try to take the genre in a different/modern direction, I’ve already admitted that, I just feel it mirrors much of Goodfellas and Scorecese’s work in general which is far deeper that mere crime/mafia shit and nothing more.


#279

And I disagree.

Joe Pesci’s character’s mum was all lovely and fussy over him, and totally oblivious to why he would want to borrow a large kitchen knife. Which is totally different to Livia Soprano, who was horrible to him, totally evil and not at all oblivious to the mafia lifestyle, as evidenced by her conspiring to murder her own son. Perhaps you need to better explain to me how it was a clear inspiration.

This conversation started when I recognised a scene that was a clear homage to Goodfellas so to say that I don’t see any parallels is a particularly strange observation imo.

I see parallels and influences, I just disagree with you saying that the show was trying too hard to emulate Goodfellas. I think it has a very healthy respect for perhaps the greatest example of the mob genre, I just don’t think it tried to copy it, I think it tries to do something different with the genre and succeeds in transcending the genre.

I don’t see the point continuing this when we just clearly disagree, before we get increasingly snippy with each other. Now go and get your fuckin’ shinebox


#280

The scene is much more than that.

During the scene Scorsese didn’t tell his mother anything about the body in the trunk due to fear it would taint her reaction to the boys. The scene is a lesson in psychology itself, the psychopathic and sociopathic tendency to lie towards a loved one while there is a body in the trunk of your car is a remarkable insight into this violent world. It illustrates the duality of the meaning of “familiy” within the Italian American mob and is one of my favorites scenes in the entire film. To me that transcends the genre, more-so than the Soprano’s ever did.

I find that the dinner scene is not only more nuanced than Tony S talking with his Dr, but it’s much more powerful.

Like you say we obviously just have our preference but not every discussion is a debate, sometimes I like to hear others perspectives of shows/films I’m interested in even if I don’t agree with them. Always gives me something to think about when I re-watch shows like The Sopranos.
Though I’ll always think The Wire is drivel no matter what anyone says.


#281

Well I think when you’re actively disagreeing with each other it’s more of a debate than a discussion, but perhaps that’s semantics. I have however appreciated your insights into Goodfellas, and have appreciated a different perspective as you say you sometimes do.