Basketball (NBA/ FIBA)

He reached the conference finals twice though with his style. Let’s be honest Duncan/Parker/Ginobilli is better than Nash/Stoudemire. The same could be said of the Dallas Mavericks with Dirk one year later.

Conference finals = 4th place :joy:

Yeah. But you could argue they made the most of their potential with their roster. If 4th is maximazing our potential we seriously slid off the scale of English football :wink:.

Well considering they had the back to back MVP I think they probably failed a bit.

MVP means jack shit for a team chances of winning the Championship. No offence, but I feel like in american sports way to much importance is given to whose awards.
For example; it can be argued James Harden is the MVP this season, because he is single-handely carrying that Houston Rockets’ team, but they have nowhere near enough talent to beat the Golden State Warriors. Same could be for the Suns back then imo.

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They give the MVP to the best player on the best team that usually has the best record or close to it in the regular season. Those D’antoni Phoenix teams had the MVP in Nash and then at the time probably the best PF in the game in Stoudemire before his microfracture knee surgery. The fact Nash won the MVP highlights just how much those teams failed because they were the favorites to win it all several times.

I disagree. If they had given the MVP to the best player to teams with the best record or close to it, Michael Jordan and LeBron James should have been MVP every year in their careers. They were clearly the best players and their teams had the best or close to the best records; but they didn’'t get voted for. Like I said the Spurs had more talent on their roster and a better coach. The Suns weren’t that clear favorites. I think before Nash won that first MVP they won 29-30 games…

Also Stoudemire the best PF whilst Duncan was on his peak during those days? Maybe on offense. But as far as the total package goes they are not close imo.

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Duncan IMO is known as the best PF just because of his longevity. He was a great all around player but during his career there were better players at the time. He just outlasted all of them. KG, Stoudemire and others were better certain seasons.

Yeah the MVP is a strange one as Steph Curry has won it the previous 2 seasons but does anyone serious believe he was important to his team than LeBron James ? Not saying that Steph hasn’t been an outstanding player btw.

Like I said, the warriors have had the best record in the league the last two years. Best player on their team is Curry thus MVP, but no way in hell he’s better than Lebron. So my point before is that the Suns were the best team in the regular season and Nash was their best player (they were favored to win the title but D’antonis coaching style doesn’t translate), Kobe was the best player in the league those two years.

Agree D’ Antonis style isn’t suited to playoffs. As for the other argument take Curry out of the Warriors how many less games do they win ? 10-15 ? Take James out of the Cavs and they probably win 25 less games or so, so IMO James is the MVP. This season it is probably Westbrook though because the Thunder don’t have a whole lot besides him.

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This is such fault logic imo. In those talk shows like First Take and all that they use it too. Curry’s team had and has the most talent by far in the NBA. Like Aussie says the Warriors are going to feel his abscense less because of their talent than the Rockets would if Harden couldn’t play. That makes Harden more VALUABLE to his team than it does Curry to his team, doesn’t it?

The Spurs and Miami only won three games less. Did that made the Suns so high favourites? I think Golden State has proven you can win a Championship as a jumpshooting team, something the Suns/D’Antoni got blamed for, if your defense is on par with your offense :wink:. Other than the fact they also play teams who have more talent than them. Especially this season with Golden State.

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Yeah I actually don’t disagree with you on the MVP thing, But that’s just the way they vote for the award. That was my point about Nash and the Suns. They had the best team (regular season) and the best player on the team won the MVP. So the fact he won it in my eyes shows me that the Suns those two years should have accomplished more than they did. Home court is a huge deal in the playoffs as well and Phoenix had that advantage throughout the playoffs so yeah that makes you prohibitive favorites. The issue with the Suns though was D’antoni had an 8 seconds or less system. You push the ball up the court and get a shot off in 8 seconds max. The idea was more offensive chances more points scored. It worked until playoff time where defenses can prepare for you in a 7 game series. Kind of the same reason GSW look unbeatable in the regular season and then get beat in the playoffs, basically twice because OKC should have never lost that 3 - 1 lead last year.

Golden State are actual Champions though with a fast paced style like that. I don’t think it’s the style of play which doesn’t work, but the fact that D’Antoni’ teams are average on defense, that makes him as a coach the problem. Not the style of play. The Warriors have been top 3 as far as defense go in the past two years.

Miami also won two Championships with a space-and-pace style of play with a good amount of jumpshooting. But again; they were a proper defensive team. And LeBron James ofcourse. The Suns weren’t that good on defense as teams like Miami and Golden State who also used a lot of jumpshooting and a fastpaced style. Plus the talent factor.

Well yeah we call him coah Antoni for a reason because he has no “D” :ox: but terrible defense and shoot in less than 8 seconds is asking for trouble in the post season. The Warriors are a different brand of basketball all together because yeah they shoot jump shots but they also get into the paint a lot and score easy buckets. Plus they have good team defense, Steph is a bit of a liability on defense another issue that’s been exposed in the post season.

Houston are 5th currently in points in the paint. I reckon that would not have been different with the Suns back in those days :wink:. I think defense (and talent) is the biggest difference.

The Utah Jazz have been called a team for the future for a couple of years now, but it seems that’s finally coming together. They are 22-13 currently. There are some very interesting young teams coming up with Milwaukee, Utah and Minnesota.

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The Wolves should look to move Wiggins in a high profile trade with other pieces IMO, he’s a low efficient scorer that does not play good defence.

The Grizzlies have just beaten Golden State at Oracle in overtime after trailing by 24 late in the 3rd quarter :open_mouth: Grizzlies are 2-0 vs Warriors this season now.

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As a fellow European I root for Giannis, but the Bucks still can’t win consistently. 18-17 at this point. I guess that will come with more experience.