Yeah unfortunately when the minority back 5-6 years ago wanted change it didn’t happen, by the time the majority wanted Wenger out it was all to late, we’re now going to take years to get out of this mess or we may not get out if it at all.
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As much as I pretty much despised Wenger for his selfishness and arrogance in the final few years while he led us to this decline, he didn’t come close to destroying his legacy.
20 years from now, there will be no ambiguity about how important this man was to us; especially if we don’t even win the league again for ages which is very possible…
If he doesn’t get a statue in the end, then who the hell will?
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Nah. George Graham should, though.
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And Rioch for bringing in the genius that is Dennis Bergkamp 
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Sorry I’m giving the credit for that to David Dein
Not a bad shout even if in jest - he brought us more league titles per year of tenure than Wenger did and built the defensive unit that won Wenger 2 of his 3 league titles. Although the final 2 years of George was definitely a lot less than thrilling.
From everything I’ve read from ex Arsenal legends David Dein had a lot to do with the Wenger success years too!
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Graham also exceeded his xleaguetitlesps which was an incredible achievement given I’ve just invented that stat.
As for the defence Graham sure did build it but it was broken by the time Wenger got here and he rebuilt it so there’s no credit to be detracted from Wenger there.
I really do love what Graham did for this club but he left in disgrace (even if everyone else was at it, he got caught) and he managed spurs. No chance he gets a statue.
Seaman, Adams, Dixon, Bould, Winterburn and Keown. I don’t agree that was broken.
The midfield was broken though I think and would agree.
Agree he left in disgrace and managing Spurs a sin. But he won 2 titles when we’d not won one for a long time and a European trophy which Wenger didn’t manage in over 20 years.
Based on the vitriol among the fan base about Wenger in his final years (arguably justified) and his trousering of most of the 17m severance payment (tiny compared with Graham’s bung) I think many would argue Wenger left in disgrace too.
I’d say no statue for either in that case.
So to you accepting full payment from your employment contract is the same as fraudulently & illegally stealing money from your employer.
Got you.
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I thought he was on a two year contract with one year left to run so it doesn’t come to 17m unless he was on 17m a year. So I’m guessing part of it was a bung to buy his silence on what really went on in the Kroenke years but it’s only conjecture on my part.
Anyway I accept it wasn’t done illegally like George was so guilty as charged. Morally though I’m not sure him accepting the payment in the circumstances was the right thing for him to do given how much he’d already made and the mess he left us in.
17m was the payments made to Wenger and other staff that also left. Wenger did not receive that whole sum.
He had his contract paid up as did his coaching staff. No evidence of his silence being bought. But his contract would have likely had several non disclosure agreements, which would see him sued if he broke them. Graham himself got sacked by Spurs for breaking non disclusure of Spurs transfer funds.
If you think it’s ‘morally wrong’ to take the contracted payments the club signed off can you give any examples of managers or players not taking payment for their full contract and instead giving it back?
In my professional life I don’t think it’s usual to pay people for work they don’t do. If they have a fixed contract term they still have a duty to mitigate. I know he had his contract paid off and I know he didn’t get all the 17m. However given he allegedly had just one year left on a 8m a year job and given the other leavers were small fry the size of payment does not make sense to me unless there was a large ex-gratis/silencing payment on top. Unfortunately we can’t answer this conclusively without a lot more detailed disclosure by the club which their probably not going to give.
The last full time job I left I had a years notice period but agreed not to be paid any of it. Maybe I’m just old fashioned though when I think it’s morally incorrect to take a payment for your notice period when you don’t work it. I accept Wengers greed was unbounded if he happily insisted on the payment being made and that he would’ve had a legal argument to have some of his notice paid. I’m just saying it’s not the moral behaviour of someone who deserves a statue.
Were you choosing to leave or did they want rid of you? Do you work for some sort of charity or non profit?
I’m trying to get my head around this.
I know that but I don’t think Dick Law and the Physio and any other small fry would’ve been very much of the 17m. The head Physio was on less than 250k pa based on my sources and not on a mega notice period. Dick Law was not on the board - maybe 500k of severance at most as the most high profile. It doesn’t go far into 17m but who knows without the disclosure from the club to the fans who pay for it all.
I was a senior executive in a family office owned/private equity profit making business. I had health problems but didn’t want to go on paid sick leave. I didn’t want to stop work. I just didn’t think it was moral to insist on a severance payment given I’d been very well paid for the 10 years I’d worked although I earned a fraction of what Wenger did. Legally i could’ve got loads more out of them. Just chose not to. I wasn’t working my notice so didn’t think I should insist on taking the payment. Think it’s a rotten thing to do but these days perhaps I’m just old fashioned with my values.
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Broken is probably overdoing it in fairness but he revitalised all those players and got performances out of them that we all probably thought were beyond then.
I’m not arguing that Graham shouldn’t have a statue, I’m pointing out the reasons he won’t get one.
None of what you say is reason enough to not give Wenger a statue. He absolutely should and will get one.
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George Graham also won the double as a player for us.
another tick in the statue column
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Yes. But he won’t get one.
I agree if you take his early years he looked like an absolute legend fully deserving of life long gratitude from Arsenal fans.
So I understand your view.
For me though he destroyed his reputation by stubbornly ploughing on for far too long, refusing to change and his involvement in assembling the worst squad we’ve seen since Ian Selley and co we’re getting regular starts and doing so at such a monstrosity of a cost.
The final nail for me is taking that huge severance payment when he’d already probably made well over 50m out of the club. He could’ve waived it as an apology for his end of tenure abject performance and left a hero but his greed wouldn’t let him leave any money on the table.
I respect your view on this and have a lot of sympathy for it but just don’t think either of us will persuade each other on this. I feel sad for Wenger that he so tarnished his reputation with the fans when he should’ve left as an unblemished legend.
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