Mesut Özil (10)


#3901

How so.


#3902

I don’t know.


#3903

Mbappe found himself in a circumstance in which he was forced to meet Putin, he didn’t actively decide to make it happen. Ozil’s representatives, on his say so, arranged a meeting with Erdogan. The two clearly aren’t the same.

Ozil, or his representatives, also brought a shirt along with Ozil’s name on it to pose with Erdogan. Mbappe didn’t, he was given an award and was then faced with a decision as to whether or not he should shake Putin’s hand when in the country Putin runs.

Ozil evidently decided to be part of a publicity exercise for a dodgy leader, Mbappe found himself in one.


#3904

No he wasn’t. How. How specifically was he forced. How did he “find himself” there. Do you think that on the plane to Russia he was blindfolded and told they were going to Ibiza?

I also would like an explanation as to why Mbappe chose to shake his hand. Why did he smile there, who the fuck smiles at that murderer? That’s a conscious choice by him, he knew that photo I posted was taken. He knew exactly what he was doing.


#3905

I do get what @JakeyBoy is getting at.

Özil meeting Erdogan was more of a concerted effort whereas Mbappe meeting Putin was part of the ceremony of winning the World Cup, two distinctly different instances that lead to a similar outcome.


#3906

Think that’s a poor hill to die on, friend.

Better to use this weapon!

M10 disgracing himself and the organisation he represents by taking pictures with autocratic despot!!!


#3907

Yes but here you are imposing an entirely unrealistic standard upon him. Why on earth would you expect Mbappe to not go to the World Cup when not a single other player did that, or was expected to do that?

It’s not even remotely comparable to Ozil arranging to meet Erdogan in England.

Mbappe was there to do his job, being very good at his job led to a circumstance in which he ended up meeting Putin. Ozil arranged to meet Erdogan in a situation that sat outside of his job. The two are evidently quite different and you’d either have to be thick or wilfully trying to twist the situations to make them fit your opinion to not see this.

I certainly don’t think you’re thick.


#3908

Who gives a shit who he shakes fuckin hands with…So long as he turns up and does the business for Arsenal, thats all that matters to the majority of us…Sport and politics should not be mixed…


#3909

It’s a bit naive to think there is no support for Erdogan by Ozil, either directly or indirectly through family members, whilst arranging a meeting in London for a photo-op? Two weeks for a huge tournament.


#3910

You might be right.


#3911

Not to you. But there’s a cultural difference here, and it is weird how you are not interested in what it is to him.

Being from Turkey you can meet with your president and take a picture, talk football etc. without endorsing their politics at all. I struggle to see why it is so unfathomable for so many people that there is a slight cultural gap here.

After that the picture is being used for political propaganda and as an argument left and right which is what Özil himself is on about in his statement.

We have people all over this thread having no problem whatsoever with the idea that Özil - Erdoğan is an abolishment to peace but Mbappe - Putin is by cultural argument fine and forced and means nothing and huff huff huff.

If you listen to Özil himself he is saying it exactly well himself, you accept a meeting out of respect, it is not political. If it is used that way then that is sad, just like if you wave that photo around of Mbappe, Infantino and Putin as some sort of argument that Mbappe is a dick and start drawing on his… uh… Cameroonian heritage or something completely unrelated.


#3912

Really? You really believe this wasn’t politically driven? There were 4 to 6 weeks between this meeting and Turkish elections. This meeting was in the midst of campaign time. Turkish immigrants in Europe who hold Turkish passports can also vote in Turkish elections btw.


#3913

The issue is that it is being used politically in Turkey and even if Özil claims that there was no political reasoning behind the meeting he should know that a public figure as big as himself meeting up with a political figure in his free time was going to draw connections to the political campaign. Even worse when you stay silent for 2 months and then not even adress the issue everyone’s upset about.


#3914

I’ve made other posts in the subject, speculating on the various reasons why he might have decided to meet him, or rather, decide to not snub him. So the accusation that I’m not interested in what it means to him is crap.

You’re the only person I’ve noticed saying there is a cultural difference at play here (I could be wrong but I thought Mesut expressed this as being his thought process, not it being reflective of a Turkish societal norm, my bad if I have that twisted), and until others chime and say that yes, Turkish people are willing to meet with whoever runs their country regardless of their politics and how abhorrent their policies are, I am not going to just take your word for it.

And if it turns out to be the case, then I’ll happily sit here and question the validity and morality of that cultural norm, because I think its bullshit to think that you owe someone respect when they have little respect for the basic tenets of democracy.


#3915

Yes. I genuinely believe that there were no political intentions. He even tried to explain it specifically (Özil did) that meeting a political figure in Turkey does not necessarily mean that you support their view on this or that. I can’t remember the exact words.

And to be clear here, all I’m trying to do here is explain that there are several ways people view the role and symbolic meaning of meeting someone and how it is done etc. Personally I wouldn’t piss on Infantino, Putin and Erdoğan if they were on fire, but this is more about trying to get some cultural detail across :sweat_smile:

Maybe another example where a western culture treats a situation similar is the example of NFL players refusing to go to the White House after refusing to “behave properly” during the national anthem, which rustled the jimmies of plenty of Americans. How come this is such a big deal? Some people clearly think you should honor the system and meet Trump even though you disagree with his poltics etc. These events cause quite the ruckus for similar reasons, just that this time it was good old westerners who claimed “tradition” and symbolic meaning etc.


#3916

He can say a lot but when a meeting is arranged in campaign time and it’s spread on social media I highly doubt it’s just a meeting with the leader of your parents’ country. Dictators also don’t meet with people of whom they don’t think they have their support I imagine.


#3917

Lol Germany can get fucked. #IstandwithMesut


#3918

THIS IS MY RB.

Look at number of likes.


#3919

Well obv. not all Turkish people ofc. But here is Özil himself:

“For me, having a picture with President Erdogan wasn’t about politics or elections, it was about me respecting the highest office of my family’s country. My job is a football player and not a politician, and out meeting was not an endorsement of any policies."

“For me, it didn’t matter who was President, it mattered that it was the President. Having respect for political office is a view I’m sure both the Queen and Prime Minister Theresa May share when they too hosted Erdogan in London."

“Whether it had been the Turkish or German president, my actions would’ve been no different."

“My job is a football player and not a politician, and our meeting was not an endorsement of any policies.

and

“I get that this may be hard to understand, as in most cultures the political leader cannot be thought of as being separate from the person. But in this case it is different. Whatever the outcome would’ve been in this previous election, or the election before that, I would have still taken the picture.”

I mean Özil might still be a dick, I won’t know for sure, but I know that at least he is not making his arguments up. I also obv. choose to interpret the situation as Erdoğan rather being opportunistic and exploiting Özil’s image and perhaps Özil (and maybe Gündoğan as well) are perhaps at best guilty of being naïve.


#3920

Sack them all.