Mesut Özil

Former Gunners
#3862

Still hate this line of reasoning. Why do you expect other people to react to things in the same way you did?

You might be strong enough to cope with some shit, it doesn’t mean others will be. If it’s going to make him miserable, negatively affect his mental health, why carry on?

Also, that was your job and your livelihood, you might not have felt able to quit. He doesn’t depend on this to put bread on the table, it isn’t necessary for him to stick with it in the same way.

I don’t feel the two situations are analogous, but I’m getting into dodgy territory because I don’t know what you went through and I don’t want to invalidate or disrespect whatever you went through.

As for the red and white tint, I can genuinely say that’s irrelevant here. People on here know how I exact to issues surrounding racism, if this was Lukaku and Belgium I can sincerely tell you I’d be backing him just as vociferously.

1 Like
#3863

I can’t remember but I don’t think it was too much. Partly because he represents Turkey and partly because the situation with Erdogan was not quite as tense as it now.

2 Likes
#3864

I think that’s the crux of the matter here- I don’t agree for one moment how Ozil is dealing with this.

I think another pertinent point to make is, while it’s hard to read Ozil, if he is genuinely deeply and emotionally affected by the racism then he needs support. I’m sure he has advisors in the background. If he is using the racism as a smokescreen to mask the consequences of the photograph, his poor recent performances in national colours and the possibility that he may be dropped anyway, then shame on him.

As for Lukaku and Belgium, it wouldn’t be as black and white in that case (if you’ll pardon the pun)

#3865

That was just literally a name I threw out as it was the first thing that popped into my head, being a rival player and probably because someone mentioned him previously in this thread. Not because I think he’s directly comparable to what has gone on here. Just to be clear.

All I wanted to do was say that I’d be arguing the toss just the same if it wasn’t an Arsenal player, this whole issue goes beyond club loyalties to me.

#3866

I get that.

Much in the same way I feel an affinity for England and Denmark having grown up in England for half my life.

However, in Ozil’s situation, I think he’s being disloyal and disrespectful to a country who have provided him and his family with opportunities, liberty, wealth and democracy that wouldn’t have been afforded to him in Turkey. His family left for a reason, and him doing that photo op with Erdogan is a slap in the face to Germany after the remarks he made about Germans being nazis as well as all of the Turks who actually live and have to deal with the consequences of his rule. Why is it that the most fervent supporters of Erdogan the dictator are the ones who live in Denmark, Netherlands, Germany etc. and aren’t actually affected by it?

What makes it worse is that Gundogan is there with him playing that whole “Erdogan is my one true president” LOL Not a great look given what Erdogan stands for.

Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t give a shit if Ozil came out and said “I love Turkey, kebabs are better than sauerkraut and Istanbul is the best city!”. Whatever, that’s fine, but this political support by a huge celebrity that is fucking WORSHIPPED by Turks of a political figure being internationally castigated for his human rights abuse, gay rights abuse, freedom of expression abuse etc. is NOT FUCKING COOL. Especially when you and your family have moved to a country and lived in a country and made use of the wealth and infrastructure and democracy benefits of that country that stands for the complete opposite.

If SRCJJ came out and said “I love Morocco, it’s sick, the food is amazing, the culture is great and Rabat is an awesome city” I would give literally no shits. However if SRCJJ came out in support of Muhammed VI as an amazing King and the King he really owed his loyalty too rather than Queen Elizabeth (whatever, let’s roll with it for the example) then I would be just as critical and disdainful because Morocco doesn’t exactly have a stellar record when it comes to womens rights and homosexuality.

I think the DFB should have kicked him and Gundogan out of the squad to start with. And I would say the same about Pione Sisto or Youssuf Poulsen of the Danish national team if they came out in support of some backwardass fascist dickheads from their countries of origin or even Peter Schmeichel if he had supported some far-right extreme Polish politician back in his day.

Trust me guys, I know all about people with dual-heritage. I’ve only ever gone to international schools with kids of dual or even triple heritage and have known hundreds of them, but I still feel very strongly about treating your adopted home country with respect. ESPECIALLY if you left your original country because you were fleeing war, persecution, poverty etc. and not just some diplomat or expat who got moved there.

5 Likes
#3867

I think you’re interpreting the political meaning a bit too strongly here.

Let’s take an example: are you angry at all the France NT players who shook hands with Putin at the medal ceremony rather than fist fighting him to make a politcal stand right then and there, for the murdered journalists, the crimes in Crimea, the support of Assad etc etc? Probably not. Because the cultural norm here for us is to in that situation smile, shake hands, get medal, move along. I doubt Mbappe loves how Putin supported Assad for years. I just don’t think he views that hand shake as a political gesture.

The cultural norm in Turkey is that if invited, go there, talk a bit of football, sign a shirt, take a picture, move along. You don’t have to agree on things beyond that, “you can still behave properly”, that is the respectful thing to do. It doesn’t have to mean a lot.

#3868

If Germany had won the World Cup I wouldn’t have had an issue with Özil shaking Putins hand because Russia was hosting it and as deplorable as Putin is that’s just the diplomatic situation in such an event. Same goes for if it was Turkey hosting the World Cup, then fine.

Thinking about it, it’s probably Gündogan I’m more annoyed with.

1 Like
#3869

That would have made fantastic tv.

#3870

I thought Pussy Riot’s little stunt did :smiley:

#3871

A sad end to one of Germany’s all time greats international careers. Good for us though as it just means he can focus on Arsenal.

#3872

Did I miss Ozil doing the equivalent? When did he say Erdogan is totally amazing and the person he owes his loyalty to? Because if he didn’t I don’t really see what you are trying to say with this analogy.

What I was responding was the pretty shitty and lazy line “if Ozil loves Turkey so much why doesn’t he play for them”. Nothing from your post actually convinces me that that line isn’t a really weak thing to throw at him.

1 Like
#3873

Tbf, I think it’s likely there is some of this going on.

Would Özil be quitting and releasing this statement if he were 22, an important piece of the national team as he was then, not having won a WC, and with a nailed-on spot in the team? Doubtful. Is throwing shade at these cunts and defending himself against their poor actions a result of a kind of stupid, at the very least terribly innocent, decision? Yes. Is it likely that he actually condemns Erdogan as a politician and as a tyrant? No–they’re not chatting about football the whole time like pals with Erdogan thinking/knowing that Özil thinks he’s a dick as a politician and as a leader of his country, and Özil isn’t going to go chat football with him in the first place if he feels strongly about that. The point about the complete separation of politics and a personal visit/honour just isn’t as separable as he tries to make out in part I of that statement.

All that said, I would take away the moral condemnation on that “shame on him” part from your post. I can see how it might be a bit offensive to you, the opportunism involved in it, but either way he’s responded beautifully in part III and called out publicly a bunch of racist retrograde cunts. The motives might not be entirely clean but they never really are under further inspection, what matters is it’s a good response and he’s rightfully and powerfully called out a bunch of cunts for being what they are, and that’s a good thing, especially when those cunts are in positions of power.

2 Likes
#3874

Exactly, plus Afd called for a “white Germany” again. Clear racism going on against him.

#3875

Petty semantics merchant here.

It’s discrimination yes but racism is the wrong term here.

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#3876

The irony of Ozil screaming racism while backing a leader who persecutes kurds and backs ISIS is lost on people here. Ozil can fuck off for backing a tyranical human rights abuser

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#3877

Kinda agree with the general thrust here tbh.

Ozil justifies his interaction with a despicable character in Erdogan as respecting the holder of the highest office in the country of his heritage then questions why people see him as German-Turkish rather than 100% German when no sensible German citizen would ever endorse such a despot

Ozil essentially gave ammo to far right entities who are always looking further their anti migrant agenda all because he didn’t have the grapes to decline a picture.

2 Likes
#3878

No, someone used that meeting to build a racist agenda against him. It’s easy to understand.

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#3879

Exactly!

#3880

It’s a photo. Photos are not endorsements. People are ducking annoying.

3 Likes
#3881

Its like I quite dislike Jose Mourinho but if I was in position where I have to be polite to him & pose for a pic, I would because that’s the decent thing to do.

Did Ozil travel on his own accord to meet him? Was he invited? What was the setup?