Manchester City thread


#261

Shit player.

@CunningLinguist another instance of AC being provoked.


#262

Just to put a bit of context around this point - teams in the top 20 wages in world football:

England: 8
Germany: 3
Spain: 3
France: 2
Italy: 4

And France and Spain have basically massive gulf after first tier (in case of Spain after RM and Blona; France after PSG).

Italy in terms of wage distribution is more even at the top tier than Spain or France actually. England though overall have the most even ratios (top team/team ranked x) at the high-end. Italy has pretty even ratios overall because their top teams aren’t quite as rich any more (Juve has a wage bill more than 40 million less than Arsenal for example).


#263

Money does not equate to quality. Especially in England where there is a rare environment for tactical negligence and poor managing in general.

Last season from top to bottom La Liga had more quality than England. I’m not sure about this season but mid-low table teams in La Liga are at least equal (probably better) than their counterparts in England. Anyone who is telling you otherwise is frankly talking shit, like @Trion for example.

The in La Liga ‘there are just too many pushovers’ argument is the laziest and most ignorant out there. It comes exclusively from people who haven’t a clue about La Liga or anything but the premier league really.


#264

Or maybe you are too defendive of your domestic league that you ignore the constant thumping that Barca & Real dished out to rest of the league.


#265

Of course it isn’t purely causative, but it is incredibly correlated. RM and Barca are in the CL finals a lot and they are the two richest clubs in world football. Their gulf to Atletico is ridiculous. It just doesn’t make for an ability to consistently threaten the top 2. And I agree, the middle tier and lower tier are harder to tease out for various reasons, but the fact is, with the new money in EPL, it is going to get more pronounced. Only RM and Barca will be able to spend top money on big players, while several more teams in England will be able to do so.

Just looking at England or any league in isolation, the correlation is pretty damn spot on. Which teams win each league on reliable basis? One of the richest almost every time. Fact is, only England in the last 5 years or so has pulled a rabbit out of the hat with LC.

Overall quality right now probably doesn’t reflect the money perfectly - I’d agree with that, but it is still a great indicator and moving forward will increasingly be so I fear b/c the gulf is growing.


#266

I think people at times underestimate the amount of talent in those two Spanish clubs, it can give the perception of a weak league but it’s two clubs ahead of everyone else in world football in regards to the accumulation of elite talent.


#267

No one said ‘weak league’. Less competition for big clubs was the discussion, which is clearly the case as you said the amount of talent at Barca/Real is too much for rest of the league to handle.


#268

Effectively they are the 2 best clubs in Europe and have been for a long period of time, so what you saying is if they were in the the Premier League the Premier league would also be a " Weak League"


#269

again no mention of weak league.

If they were in PL, their TV revenue would be shared and that would result in more competition, leading to less dominance, leading to less money to spend on players, leading to less quality in their team, leading to less dominance etc. etc.

In La Liga, they have monopoly in TV revenue, which results in less competition.


#270

United dominated this League for 25 years with the TV revenue split.


#271

Because PL was shit back then and no good players wanted to join other teams.
Only after Arsenal arrived, PL became attractive.


#272

Back when exactly? Even during the stretch Wenger and Abramovich took leadership with Arsenal and Chelsea they were still the dominant team.


#273

They won’t suddenly turn shit, would they?
After years of dominance, they will ride their success afterwards.

Infact check their dominance, post arrival of compettion they didn’t dominate as much as before.

And during last 3-4 seasons, they have completely gone off the rail because compeition has gone up from 2 clubs to 5.

Which is exactly the point i am making.


#274

LOL the league has only gone up one contender post 2010 and thats Man City, they still won most of the leagues 2005-2013 with all the other contenders but yeah riding the wave of success and all that etc etc.


#275

Don’t you think United’s unrivalled success in 90s, lead to them having commercials in place to deal with competition, which got found out recently & now they are playing catch up?


#276

Is that because of increase of competition or the departure of Ferguson? Because even when City emerged they won titles in 10/11 and 12/13. Equal in points with City in 11/12, one point off Chelsea in 09/10.

Titles of the last 4 years have also been split by City and Chelsea, bar the freak season we had last season, to say dominance by 1 or 2 teams is not possible seems a bit off.


#277

I think its more due to the fact that Ferguson retired and nothing more.


#278

Again back to square one, the indication to final table.
You will show me United, City & Chelsea as only winners of PL.
Similar to Barca & Real only winners of La Liga.

But Liverpool have contested for the title, Arsenal have done so, Tottenham has, in addition to usual Chelsea, United, City.

Now look at LaLiga, When Barca wins, it’s only Real as competitor, When Real wins, only competitior is Barca.

Which is the discussion. La Liga provides very little competition to title winner.

Even when PL was two club league in Arsenal & United, teams like Newcastle, Leeds, Liverpool have contested for title.
But La Liga has only A. Madrid to offer.


#279

I don’t consider Liverpool, Arsenal and Tottenham as structural title contenders. Like in La Liga what it comes down too are 2 or 3 teams. Especially Tottenham has a serious ceiling on what they compete for and can achieve and one freak season doesn’t change that.

If you go so far as mentioning Leeds and Newcastle as title contenders, which they were before 2004, you can also mention Deportivo La Coruna and Valencia for La Liga. They actually won the title in the same era Leeds and Newcastle competed for it.


#280

Fair enough.