It’s a long process for Liverpool. TBH even fighting for top 4 right now is all they can realistically achieve with their squad so it’s coming together slowly.
What isn’t a surprise is they lack squad depth. They only just have a good enough first 11, which in itself needs more work.
If Kloop keeps getting the players he needs, they will get to where they need to sooner or later. Making top 4 for them this season is vital.
I think most of their fans would still be quelled if they didn’t stay in the top 4 this season but managed to get into a UEFA spot. It would be seen as slow progress from koppites and it helps that they have a lot of influence in the media who will inevitably smooth over any cracks or signs of negative spiel.
They only have the League to focus on now, right? Getting Mane back and keeping their regular 11 fit should see them battle for top 4 realistically. And in this modern football world of pure reactionary actions, I’d expect a fair amount of poo thrown at them if they fail that.
People give Klopp way too much leeway tbh I think this is due to his likability. How can Liverpool consistently get results against top 6 sides but the extent ambition is 4th? The LFC supporters won’t admit it but they had eyes firmly fixed on the title this year.
When you’re title challenge is being hindered by dropping points against the likes of Sunderland, West Ham and Swansea you have to look at the manager. The issue isn’t the quality of the players at his disposal, we know Liverpool are much better than bottom half opposition on paper so why are they dropping unnecessary points?
You have to look at the manager: Some of the Liverpool’s failings are typical trademarks of Klopp’s management. Poor squad composition beyond the first 11, no tactical plan B and poor motivation against smaller teams.
Isn’t that ‘grass is always greener’ mentality just great.
Imagine Liverpool not being happy with Jurgen fucking Klopp. Ffs.
They’d be hard up aiming for a Title when they’d only have about 3 players in the Arsenal Starting 11.
That sort of logic just doesn’t make any sense. The amount of individual players who’d subjectively get into Arsenal’s 11 is no indication of Liverpool’s quality as a team.
I don’t why people set the bar so low for Klopp.
How does it not make sense ? The fact only 3 or so players would get into Arsenal and Chelsea’s 11 means aiming for the Title should be s bridge too far.
Because it clearly doesn’t correlate to reality. A reality where Liverpool are leaders of the top 6 H2H table and their issues have come against lesser opposition where they were expected to win.
They have the best attacking record and the same amount of losses as Chelsea the title is not a bridge too far. Just realise Klopp has legitimate failings on full display this season instead of making weak excuses for him
Why is the bar set low for Arsenal?
Maybe the extent ambition for top 4 is because were they come from? They have been a 6th-8th team for several seasons bar that miracle year. Babysteps maybe?
I also think you’re overestimating them a bit. This Liverpool are not a top team which is supposed compete for the title. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal, 3rd/4th/5th quality-wise, it’s inherent for these kind of teams to be inconsistent.
And others coaches don’t? Pep, Mourinho, Wenger all have SPLENDID seasons, eh? Given the quality of the squad and the wage bill, Liverpool are right about where they should, maybe even a little better than that.
@SDGooner - is the bar set low for Arsenal? Arsenal’s expectations is completely different story and I don’t really want to get into it on here cause it got nothing to do with looking a Liverpool.
I don’t think they’re previous finishes has much baring on the context of this current season. They’ve raised the bar this season and should be considered title challengers.
How can you say I’m overestimating Liverpool when they’re leaders of the top 6 H2H table? Best attacking record in the league, same losses as Chelsea. There’s obviously alot of quality in the side if they’re getting consistent reults against the best sides in the league if anything you’re underrating the Liverpool in an attempt to cover Klopp’s failings against lesser opposition where the holes in his management become more apparent.
@CunningLinguist - We’re not talking about other coaches are we? We’re specifically about Liverpool and Klopp. I see no need to expand the discussion to other managers and their respective performances.
The whole wage bill argument is no real indication of anything either. It’s just another weak excuse for Klopp. I don’t think people realise how important the fact that Liverpool are leaders of the top 6 H2H table is, I’ve said like 3 time now because it’s very valid. It shows that despite the wage differences they have consistently remained competitive against the very best in the league and it doesn’t inhibit them. Their issues have come against smaller teams where Liverpool pay the higher wages than they do and have more quality.
You underrate the quality of the squad look above for facts as to why this Liverpool side is quality. No one has really answered the point about Liverpool struggles against smaller opposition either.
You can always compliment the way Klopp is overachieving against the big teams as much as you can say he is failing against the lower sides. Both are true.
You cannot at all assess if somebody is performing well, if you don’t compare his work against that of his peers. I might look mighty fast running the 100yards, but if you pit me against a mediocre sprinter, things will be put in perspective. So of course you have to talk about other coaches and their performances to have a realistic view of what is going on. As it stands, Klopp is doing quite well in comparison to the established PL coaches that had years to build their squad (Wenger, Pochettino) and the two that are called the best in the business (Pep, Mourinho).
It’s an argument for Klopp, true. Which is why you don’t like it. It is not weak either, which is why you like it even less.
In Liverpool’s case, because their defensive style is so aggressive (and with such strong focus on the ball), I’d say that it’s much easier for them to press against teams that prefer to keep the ball/teams that don’t just hoof it away to create chaos.
That kind of aggressive style is certainly more risky, but since you can plan for more situations and make the decision making of your players less difficult when you’re the “underdog”, that’s also what gives them a huge advantage against these types of (better) opponents. Other teams, with a different style of play, won’t have the same advantages, but they’re also probably going to be much better when it comes to controlling long balls and defending the box.
This isn’t a question of “holes” in his management. What’s easy for most teams, clearly isn’t quite as easy for Liverpool at the moment. They’re now more comfortable against the teams they’re expected to win against, but they’re not quite there yet. More time to work on the training ground and more players with defensive decision making good enough to cope with more “chaotic” situations, is what they need.
Regardless of the reasons both Arsenal and Liverpool are in the same competitive position imo. Yet I feel, by some, Liverpool are being hold more accountable.
Those feats and results could also mean they are overachieving in comparison with their actual quality. I assumed before the season us and them would be competing for top 4. In that regard they are meeting expectations pretty much. Luckily for both of us the Manchester-teams are struggling 
They deserve praise tbh. 22 games in and they’re in with as much of a shout as anyone for 2nd-4th.
Every player they have (and Klopp) is someone anyone else could have bought but didn’t want to. They weren’t poaching Lallana and Mane and Wijnaldum from Barcelona, they generally built a squad of mid table players not playing at “the top level” and are making it work well enough. Their biggest signing was Milner on a free. They’ve not had the chance to sign an Alexis or an Ozil or a Pogba or an Ibrahimovic. They’re not at the level to attract those players so with those limitations I’d say they we’re doing a great job.
Klopp getting top 4 with the players and defense they have would be a big achievement. They haven’t got top 4 the last 2 years and didn’t get it for about 4-5 years before that. They don’t have any world class players either.
Criticising Klopp for only getting top4 with that lot and then defending Wenger for only getting top 4 doesn’t add up. Personally think they’re both top managers.
The cost of Liverpool squad is the same as ours (give or take 20m), add the fact that Liverpool are playing no European football and you can see why anybody would say they’re underachieving if they finish outside the top 4.
The problem is their fans. They thought to be title contender in august.
So basically Liverpool overpaid for some players then or we underpaid depending on how you look at it.