Jack Wilshere

It’s true that Kos has turned from average to top quality in a few seasons, but if Wenger is such a genius at turning average CB’s into great ones, then why hasn’t he done it more often.

The fact that since the top players like Adams, Campbell and Keown, we have had, Senderos, Squillaci, Nordveldt, Djourou, Cgan, Sylvestre, etc, and plenty of other uninspiring CB’s.
So it would suggest that maybe he hasn’t got any special talent for bringing through players in that position, and Kos was the exception rather than the rule.

As for the other players you mentioned, Cesc and RVP were considered the best young players in Europe, so it was hardly a stretch of the imagination that they would turn out ok.

Since we sold RVP, we have bought several strikers, like Chamakh, Gervinho, Park, Sanogo, Campbell etc, and none of them, apart from maybe Giroud, have been anything more than average, even though their wages would suggest otherwise.

I don’t think Wenger is any better than a lot of other managers at bringing through unknown players.
He was when he first came here, but not any more.

You can’t judge equally a young player and an experience CB.

Senderos has been part of CL final squad with tremendous stats. I consider his experience with us not great but not bad. If you remember, after us he played with one of the best team in the World: AC Milan.

Same words for Pascal Cygan for a different player. He was a fringe player and in 2005/06 season, with him on the pitch, Arsenal won 12 games on 20 games with 11 clean sheets. If you judge him like a horrible player to remember with our colours, I don’t know why I’m talking with you.

You can’t judge him like Silvestre (31 years old when he joined us, panic buy), Sebastian Squillaci (30 years, free agent).

If you want to talk about young defenders without experience since 2000 to 2016, I can mention Upson (good player for a midtable team), Ashley Cole (worldclass defender), Kolo Tourè (top class defender), Gael Clichy (very good defender), Justin Hoyte (shit), Senderos (good but not great), Djourou (shit), Ebouè (very good), Armand Traorè (shit), Kyele Bartley (shit), Ignasi Miquel (shit), Kieran Gibbs (good), Jenkinson (good), Bellerìn (top class), Chambers (good), Holding and Bielik (they are developing very good)… and I refused to mention the players who have developed under Arsène but they aren’t too young like the others (Koscielny, Sagna, Vermaelen etc…)

Chamakh, Gervinho, Park and Campbell have been bought when van Persie was here and they were here because anyone scouted them. Especially Gervinho, has been an average player not because Wenger wasn’t good, but because his qualities weren’t adapt for a dynamic league like the Premier League. Chamakh has been useful, like Joel Campbell. The only big failure have been Park, but we don’t know because he never played seriously with our shirt, and Yaya Sanogo.

…and apart Giroud, we bought Alexis Sanchez, Lukas Podolski,

George Weah, Emmanuel Petit, Lilian Thuram, Freddie Ljungberg, Nicolas Anelka, Ashley Cole, Thierry Henry (he was a left midfielder with Juventus and booed by their fans), Jermaine Pennant, Kolo Tourè, David Bentley, Gael Clichy, Cesc Fabregas, Emmanuel Ebouè, Robin van Persie (wonderkid with Feyenoord but Arsène helped him to be the best striker of last 10 years), Philippe Senderos, Abou Diaby, Theo Walcott, Alex Song, Kieran Gibbs, Woji Szczesny, Francis Coquelin, Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Hector Bellerin, Serge Gnabry, Alex Iwobi, Callum Chambers = all unknow (and young) player, who have reached from good to world class level, launched by Mr Arsène Wenger.

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Chamakh has been useful ? You don’t consider him a failure ? That’s the optimum definition of rose coloured glasses…

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Your standards are fucking low maxi.

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[quote=“Maxi_Gooner, post:544, topic:90, full:true”]

George Weah, Emmanuel Petit, Lilian Thuram, Freddie Ljungberg, Nicolas Anelka, Ashley Cole, Thierry Henry (he was a left midfielder with Juventus and booed by their fans), Jermaine Pennant, Kolo Tourè, David Bentley, Gael Clichy, Cesc Fabregas, Emmanuel Ebouè, Robin van Persie (wonderkid with Feyenoord but Arsène helped him to be the best striker of last 10 years), Philippe Senderos, Abou Diaby, Theo Walcott, Alex Song, Kieran Gibbs, Woji Szczesny, Francis Coquelin, Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Hector Bellerin, Serge Gnabry, Alex Iwobi, Callum Chambers = all unknow (and young) player, who have reached from good to world class level, launched by Mr Arsène Wenger.
[/quote]You say all unknown but Henry was a very expensive signing when we bought him, and as for George Weah and Thuram, we never had either of those two, although we did have Christopher Weah, who was average at best.

As for some of the others, I would agree, but I did say that when he first came here, Wenger was very good at getting fairly unknown players in and turning them into very good, and sometimes, great players.

But in recent seasons a lot of the signings he has made have been very poor…

You mentioned a lot of players that I presume you consider to be an example of Wenger’s ability to turn average players in to great ones, I would agree with Cesc and RVP, but you have included, Jermaine Pennant, Kolo Tourè, David Bentley, Gael Clichy, Emmanuel Ebouè, Philippe Senderos, Abou Diaby, Theo Walcott, Alex Song, Kieran Gibbs, Woji Szczesny, Francis Coquelin, Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Hector Bellerin, Serge Gnabry, Alex Iwobi, Callum Chambers.
If they are examples of his best signings then really he hasn’t been that great.

In fact for a manager who has been in the same job for so long, it isn’t that good at all.

As I said, when he first came here, Wenger was the best manager in the P for finding playersL, but I can’t agree that he has been anywhere near as successful since the move to the Emirates.

I assume this refers to Wenger’s time at Monaco?

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I’m not convinced wenger was good at getting ‘unknown’ players either when he first joined, he was simply just not wrapped up in the English bubble. He actually knew a lot more than your standard BPL manager due to his experiences in other leagues.

Probably very little ‘unknown’ about it.

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That’s fair enough.
He also managed a young Henry when he was at Monaco as well.

To be fair George Weah did go on to become European footballer of the year, and he thanked Wenger for helping him at the start of his career.
But, as I said, those sort of players being found by Wenger, hasn’t happened very often in recent seasons, and there are a lot of other managers that are more successful at it.

Because the day & age of one manager managing a player’s career for long has gone.

It is to Wenger’s credit that he still even bothers with youth/developing player.
Many have abandoned that ages ago & have gone for best tried & tested young players if they do go for a young player.

Mourinho - doesn’t look after young players
Ancelotti - left Milan with an old squad,

Pep & Kloop are only managers with decent record with unproven talents.

I agree that Wenger is still one of the few managers of a top club that still looks for new talent, but his problem is that he persists far too long with players that aren’t good enough or that aren’t going to make it at the top level.

But in this era of football managers don’t get the time to do this at the top clubs, they have to have instant success.

Like you say, managers like Mourinho never bring through younger players, and even Ferguson, after he brought through a few like Giggs, Beckham and Scholes never really brought through top class players more than any other manager.

You’re right, that along with Wenger, the only others that are managing at the top level, that do this are Guardiola and Klopp, although Simeone is also another.

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Nobody can doubt Wenger’s pedigree over the years but it’s certainly become a lot rarer that he unearths a gem.

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Yeah, and things have also changed a lot. Nowadays the whole world would’ve known about Vieira and Henry from the time they had their first voice crack.

The world did since they went to Italy first :wink:. It just didn’t happen for them there.

Yeah true. I guess better stated would be that we would’ve had, much, much more competition for their signatures and the likes of Petit, Overmars, Pires, Ljungberg, Gilberto, etc.

The one I guess you could say is really a genuine gem is Kolo Touré.

I don’t know. Spanish and Italian clubs were already in the mix for foreigners back then. I think Wenger himself was a bigger factor with French, and probably African players to, in those years than he is now. Although it seems like we’ve shown very little interest in that particular market in recent years anyway. Plus Arsenal were actually winning.

Another 90mins eh?
Good.

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11 matches in a row. Four 90 mins in a row. Looks good!

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Another 90 mins and have read some Bournemouth fans saying he was their MOTM, I really do hope Jack comes back and plays for us and improves under another manager.

Ramsey, however, needs to be drop kicked out of the club at the earliest opportunity.