I think so, haven’t seen enough of Mavropanos but he’s obviously got an ideal defender’s build and the game I saw him for the U23s he looked pretty quality on the ball too, just U23s but obviously you’d give Sven the benefit of the doubt being the guy he clearly had eyed before coming into Arsenal. Bielik is a different class from Chambers technically and passing the ball, wouldn’t really say he’s been shoehorned into defence because he’s been developed there consistently since his arrival, and before an unlucky injury this autumn he got loan interest from a championship side having just turned 21 having not played above reserves level, and went on to impress there, so all good signs regarding his talent that. Who knows if he or Mavropanos will make it but I’d guess they have a better chance of developing into the quality we need than Chambers, we should probably be looking to buy a low 20s CB who’s ready to compete with Mustafi and Koscielny this summer along with another younger CB prospect–France seems to have a Ford level assembly line going right now–to throw into the Bielik and Mavropanos bucket, hopefully hit on one or two.
He wasn’t bad today, especially compared to Mustafi, but why on earth is he preferred to Holding? I can’t work it out for the life of me…
Holding has regressed and isn’t the same player he was when he initially arrived.
The exact same thing befell Chambers before him, it’s a trend under Wenger.
How do we even know that though? Holding hasn’t actually gotten much of a chance outside of the barren Europa league matches. His ceiling is higher then Chambers imo and he’s been here half of the time.
We know that considering how he’s performed after his bright start, just like Chambers he came in initially did well and everyone was saying how much of a bargain he was (which I still agree with) but after you’re left to play your natural game with not much experience you will be burned in this team time and time again.
Seasoned pros get exposed not to mention our younger defenders.
And for the respective ceiling of both players you may be right but Chambers was essentially the John Stones before John Stones was and his development just like that of Bellerin and Holding has been handled poorly.
The football education on offer here particularly with regard to young defenders is piss poor at best.
I agree with most of this, I just think that it’s difficult to make a case for Chambers instead of Holding if you had to choose. I pray Wenger leaves and a new manager and staff can improve them.
The crucial question when it comes to the education of our defenders has to be how much input does Bould have? I have to believe close to 0, he surely can’t be happy with what he sees but the boss keeps him quiet.
I think Bould has little say if at all really.
Not sure whether to believe this lack of defensive nous and organisation is mostly down to Bould, if it is he is just a shitty coach. Can’t rule it out because not all former good players can coach as well as they played.
Who knows if Bould is even a good coach, though? It’s not like he has a long track record in the game. I really doubt this narrative about Wenger being like some sort of Bould repressor btw, lol, Wenger likes control on the personnel level but on the coaching level he seems much, much more passive, and if Wenger really did limit Bould’s ability to give instruction in training or in games I’m pretty sure Bould would’ve left and told him to fuck off by now, no? Sure, if Bould’s idea is to play a defensive style obviously Wenger is not going to allow that, but that’s clearly not the only way to teach good defending, actually that’s not really teaching good defending at all it’s just adopting a defensive style.
Feeling I get is that Bould is probably just not a particularly good coach, which suits Wenger because any genuinely good coach would be challenging his ideas and ability much more than would be comfortable for him.
Later, I agree on Holding. Chambers did start well here but Holding strikes me as a better talent, like you said, I’m not sure how you construct a case for Chambers > Holding in terms of talent.
Yeah let’s be honest, even the best defensive coach can’t really make a great difference in a side where you have Ramsey bombing forward and vacating the middle all the time (not always a bad thing) and midfielders like Xhaka who dont have a single thought for defending in his brain shielding the back four. Not to mention the actual “defenders” we have in the back four. Our style leaves us so open its criminal at times and our best centre back is aging faster then we’d have hoped.
If we don’t buy new CBs this summer I’ll be as stunned as I was when we only bought Cech in 2015.
I obviously can’t ascertain what the truth is really so I’m not throwing my weight in either way, but I swear I’ve read the exact opposite of the above.
Bould did coach the youth team to a couple of cup wins IIRC, so that is where the high rating of Bould comes from I think.
Such a poor player. Can’t believe he’s been playing as much as he has.
We (Wenger!!!) definitely need to accept that this guy is not a full back