Arsène Wenger

Basically, we want Guardiola or no-one. Great.

I even said I rather would take the punt with an unknown quantity if one of those three are our options. So no. You are wrong.

Don’t agree. Poor man manager.

It was tongue in cheek at the general convo :yum:

Tbf Tuchel and De Boer aren’t really that far away in terms of experience. The former did exist before he joined Dortmund and De Boer did have his rough time towards the end of his Ajax time too. Not that I’m really making an argument for either of them but it seems odd seeing one of them as a quality manager while the other would be an ‘absolute disaster’.

It’s really not that easy.

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We like everything that’s coming from Germany though #hipster.

:arteta:

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@SDGooner - The mark of a manager goes beyond his honours. The fact that he’s won Eredivisie successively doesn’t even factor into my thinking. It’s his methods behind his success which shine through particularly his offensive systems and attacking tactics.

You can’t dismiss a guy who has come up throw from the Dutch/Ajax school. He’s capable of adapting

@SRCJJ - I don’t there’d be significant problems with man management at Arsenal with Rafa in charge. I think the squad would prefer someone of stature who has top level experience they’d have to respect Rafa due to his experience and accomplishments.

I cannot see the likes of Alexis or Ozil giving 110% for some like Howe, Tuchel or some flavour of the month from RB Leipzig. Infact I think certain players will take liberties that they know they could never do under Wenger - that’s just natural part of club football when a new manager comes in.

Serious man management issues is something we’ve been isolated from because of Wenger’s excellent man management. Then what you want in terms of man management after Wenger?

@PPB - Big difference between Tuchel and De Boer is that De Boer has had a platform at Ajax to develop his methods and ideas. You can see Tuchel is still adjusting to Dortmund’s level, he’s still got alot of things to learn and implement. But I agree that they’re not far from each other in terms of experience.

I maintained that De Boer is still quality manager in light of his recent disappoint at Inter. That comment had no bearing on his ability to succeed in the Arsenal job it was more of a general observation. I think Tuchel is a manager that shown some quality too but in the context of managing Arsenal I think he’s be an extremely poor appointment.

In any case his time at Dortmund so far has is has simply not shown evidence for me to be confident that he’d be good for Arsenal immediately after Wenger. It’s a massive job and a massive task which is bigger than filling the post Klopp void at Dortmund. I think he’d buckle under the pressure and expectation of managing Arsenal, his lack of experience would kill him eventually.

In terms of what I want in terms of tactics and style post AW I’d personally prefer to move away from ‘free form’ football and move to more organised tactical displays.

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If anything he wasn’t adaptable during his Ajax period. The current Ajax manager (Peter Bosz) is much more playing like the Ajax (Cruijf led) of old. De Boer is more a disciple of van Gaal imo (the collective before anything). You mention his offensive systems and attacking tactics, but his teams weren’t exactly exciting or innovative going forward either. That’s why I said what he was doing was very similar to what we are doing right now. Hence why I don’t see him improving us immediately.

Much like our bid to improve the club buy acquiring players of a higher standard, we should also take that approach with management.

If our ambition is to maintain our consistency in the upper echelons of English football, and to further that by acquiring titles (both domestic and european), then the manager should reflect those ambitions.

I figured to stimulate some discussion i would gather some data and throw it out there to give some context to the names being thrown around.

From the candidates mentioned their key achievements are (not including promotions / lower league awards):
Blanc: 4 ligue one, 5 french super cups, 4 french league cup, 2 french cup
Tuchel: nothing
De Boar: 4 eredivise, 1 dutch supercup.
Benitez: 2 la liga, 1 fifa club world cup, 1 uefa supercup, 1 english super cup, 1 europa league, 2 italian super cups, 1 italian cup, 1 FA cup, 1 eufa cup, 1 champions league
Enrique: 2 la liga, 2 spanish cup, 1 eufa supercup, 1 Fifa club world cup, 1 champions league
Cocu: 2 eredivise titles, 1 dutch cup, 1 dutch super cup
Mancini: 3 serie A titles, 4 italian cups, 2 italian super cups, 1 premier league title, 1 english super cup, 1 fa cup, 1 turkish cup
Howe: nothing
Hasenhuttl: nothing

In terms of personal accolades while managing :

From the candidates mentioned their personal achievements while managing are (not including monthly because those are very short sighted awards).
Blanc: 1 manager of the year 08/09
Tuchel: none
De Boar: 2 manager of the year (13/14, 14/15)
Benitez: 2 Uefa manager of the year (03/04, 04/05)
Enrique: 1 manager of the year (14/15), 1 worlds best club coach (14/15)
Cocu: 1 manager of the year (14/15)
Mancini: none
Howe: none
Hasenhuttl: none

Data was sourced from http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ so by all means verify or correct me if i have written something incorrectly.

But based on the accolades alone, Benitez and Enrique clearly look the business, although Benitez to me, looks a little past his best. We would probably do well to acquire someone both relevant and on a bit of an upward trend in football. De Boar looks great tbh, despite his trouble at erm, Inter?

By appointing Enrique you don’t know if you’ll get Rijkaard or Guardiola though. Both managers had great success with Barcelona, but the former fell a cliff and couldn’t achieve anything anymore, whilst Guardiola obviously could. That’s why I’m a bit hesitant to go off his success with Barcelona.

@sevchenko i see the thinking behind Rafa at Arsenal. We would definitely be more organised. The players would also know exactly what they are meant to do on the pitch too.

But after Wenger’s more lax style of ‘guys express yourselves, do what you want’, maybe Rafa’s more micromanagement will be a bit of a shock no?
I can’t see the likes of Ozil and Sanchez responding that well to him because of that, i feel they like their free roles.

Incidentally Rafa does take over after Arsene in my football manager save. But Wenger wins the CL in his last season, then Rafa wins it in his first lol.

Im still fuming that Liverpool got Klopp when surely he would have selected us over Liverpool if we were actually in for him, we now find ourselves in a bit of a predicament with so many quality mangers recently moving to new clubs. Obviously Simeone would be my clear choice but it’s really hard to see that ever happening, just think our board will go for someone underwhelming and the AKB’s saying " I told you to be careful what you wish for"

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The next 80 posts are reserved for Wenger out comments:

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I really fucking hate him, and always, always will, but it would’ve been interesting to see what Conte did with this team considering so many need a fire lit up their ass - and that is his style. I don’t think Ramsey would’ve lasted two minutes the passive passionless fuckwit.

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Wenger out x80

7million pound clown .

All is well. It’s just the League Cup after all. Shit happens. Managers and players not to blame.

So that makes it how many times we’ve been mugged off by Southampton?

Anyone keeping count?

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Twice in the last 3 years in the league cup, last 8 matches vs them are 2 wins 2 draws and 4 losses I’m pretty sure.

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If Wenger watched games like this and thought, it’s obvious that players like Jenkinson, Ramsey and Chamberlain, aren’t good enough, as well as players like Sanogo, and then moved them on, then that would be fine.

But he doesn’t.
He still persists with them even though they have been here for several seasons and have never been anything more than average.

What other manager of a top club would still have a player like Jenkinson playing for them, after proving they simply aren’t good enough?
Or Ramsey as a starting player, on 100k a week, when he has been less than convincing.
As for Chamberlain and Sanogo, what does Wenger see in them?

They’re not youth players or prospects, this is as good as they are going to be, and yet he still plays them.
It’s this stubbornness and indecisiveness that is holding us back and he doesn’t look like he is going to change, because we all know that most of these players will still be here, after this seasons, no matter how average their performances are.

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Regarding the discussion we had the other day in this thread; Hasenhuttl confirming there has been contact…

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