On same note, one can argue that the professional players shouldn’t have the need to be given instructions from sidelines, on those kind of wages. They should just do their job properly & not commit individual mistakes, regardless of system.
I don’t follow this. It’s the manager’'s actual job too put his players in the best position too succeed and the team too win. By training, tactics/system, etc. Where is the accountablity for managers in otherwise? Nobody should lose his job by this logic, because you can always point to the players then.
No it really can’t, but perhaps that would work if we didn’t have a manager on eight bloody million a year that is tasked with y’know managing the team which also covers during games.
His in game management is piss poor and ability to inspire confidence is even worse which is saying something.
@SDGooner the degree to which some go to cover for Wenger is truly something else.
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No you can’t really argue that, because that doesn’t happen in any area of employment, including football. In nearly every profession workers have a manager or superior who gives them instruction and monitors their performance, tries to prevent mistakes being made etc.
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Every profession have individual mistakes and people have lost their job over it.
No manager/supervisor would be blamed if the accountant added an extra zero in the check and sent it across.
It would be classed as a mistake and appropriate action will taken depending on nature of mistake.
Similar no Guardiola/Wenger/Mourinho should be blamed for Coquelin’s brainfart against Kane, Vermaelen 's pass to Persie, Diaby’s header into his own net.
These are individual mistakes and we tend to pay big money to not have such Sunday league mistakes in the field.
Our defense has been better in recent seasons, and as mentioned, we’re usually towards at the top regards to least amount of goals conceded. But I would probably argue that defending in general in the Premier League is nowhere near as good as 10 years ago now, or what we were doing with the famous back 4. No team looks even close to keeping things tight anymore.
Would take some effort in this current era of the PL to keep it below 20 goals or less conceded, like some teams have managed in the past.
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Throughout I have been discussing individual mistakes not be put upon Wenger or any manager.
If you want to assume and run along the narration that I consider Wenger to have no responsibility, feel free.
Ask any manager that’s worth a shit and they will tell you: it’s not how many you concede, it’s when and where you concede.
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But better Setup is only possible with better players.
There is a reason why only select few clubs are Top clubs and successful because they manage to have better players capable of coping with demands of better Setup.
They go hand in hand.
There is a reason why Joe Hart is booted out because setup demands better passing from the back.
Had Guardiola stuck with Joe Hart, he was bound to bring a individual mistake onto themselves.
Don’t think any manager has a magical setup to stop a player from commiting mistakes.
They just have a setup where good players can perform at their best.
I don’t remember any of those teams you mentioned, letting in five or more goals in several different games.
Also, teams like Chelsea, Man U, Man City etc, haven’t thrown away as many leads as we have, even when we have been two or more goals ahead.
Right so a manager should get the blame for that said player doing a reckless pass 15 yards from goal, which a goal is scored; because by all accounts players aren’t accountable for mistakes…that’s makes sense perfect blame the manager it’s suits the agenda; well when comes to Arsenal anyway
[quote=“Trion, post:199, topic:585, full:true”]
Our defensive record has improved since the days when Top teams would annihilate us; however we are only ever switched on half a season & then something goes flat.
This team abandons the defensive ethics as a whole, so to be fair it comes down on the manager.
But we fans also tend to blame individual mistakes on Wenger, which I do not support.
Mertesacker getting red carded against Chelsea, Coquelin against Tottenham and many others have dented our chances more than the defensive frailities on a whole.
[/quote]Great post, especially the first part.
Although I agree that individual mistakes cannot really be blamed on the manager, if the mistakes keep getting repeated by the same players, then that is down to the manager.
Not stopping. I’ve never said they don’t make any, they make them happen less. F.e. example a very average player like Blind actually looks decent under Mourinho’s set up. We don’t do enough too ‘protect’ players individually and don’t work enough as a unit and because of that mistakes happen more too us.
But I guess we’ll see if Wenger can take us closer now with Mustafi and Xhaka.
Yeah your right and I’m not for a second saying we don’t look completely shambolic at the back at times
I was responding to the claim that it was a FACT that our defence is terrible and only a ardent wenger supporter would try to claim difrent
The fact is we have had the best defence in the league 3 out of the last 4 seasons statistically
Edit: or at least had the most clean sheets in a season for 3 of the last 4
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I said it’s a fact the defensive coaching isn’t up to much, there’s a distinct difference so stop misquoting me.
One of my main gripes with the defense is that they have no idea what they’re doing without the ball which is at the heart of so many problems.
As is they just play their natural game which may be fine against teams we should be convincingly beating, however, against better opposition or teams on par it’s a factor as to why we get found wanting time and time again.
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Good idea @Shill
I’ve merged the posts related to Arsenal’s general defence from Mustafi’s thread to this.
As far as defence goes we’ve been more than ok. I don’t really buy this Wenger can’t coach a cohesive defensive unit, it’s a bit untrue in comparison to the records of other teams. Plus he’s shown in the recent past he’s capable of excellent tactical defensive displays over the last couple of years.
If anything has let us down it’s our attack and goals scored which is especially disappointing cause we’re a team that likes to attack and be on the front foot. Attacking Wenger over his “free form football” and lack of attacking tactics is more than fair imo
The defence itself has improved in my opinion, and this may he unpopular to some, but for me a big part to that has been Per’s organisation since he has come to Arsenal.
What lets us down a lot, (and incidentally makes our CBs look weak sauce all the time) is that we don’t defend as a team.
Too often you see midfielders and wingers fail to track back, fail to prevent momentum by opposing team counter attacks and they find it so easy to make yardage in our half quickly because of that.
It makes our defenders look like mugs time and time again. Like it did John Terry under Villas Boas. Everyone thought he had lost it, but back came Mourinho and lo and behold with Matic and a competent team of players giving some kind of defensive shape and he was good as new.
Our defensive record might be good in league seasons because 90% of the time we play teams who are too shit to do anything of these advantages Arsenal give them. But when a team does cone round who have the belief and the knowhow to exploit this weakpoint then we get pasted.
(See Monaco 2015, Everton 2014, Chelsea 2014, Liverpool 2014, 2016, Stoke 2014, Barca 2016, Bayern 2015, Man United 2016, Man City 2013 etc etc)
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Honestly it’s not even the fault of he defense. It’s the lack of a coherent tactical plan going forward that kills us. “Go express yourself and change positions with each other” isn’t a tactic. But that’s what we do.